Force Armable exit sets off alarm if opened during exit delay?

M1 Support Forum Force Armable exit sets off alarm if opened during exit delay?

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  • #4441
    M1 Installer

    Just wondering if anyone else experienced the following? According to the manual, you are able to “arm, open a garage door, back out, and close the door at their leisure, without creating a false alarm and without a long exit delay time.” I’ve noticed that this only works if you open garage door first, then arm. If you try to arm first like the manual says, then during the countdown, open and leave the garage door open past the expired time, it sets off the alarm. FYI, I have my garage door set to Exit 2, and have the latest firmware. Is this a bug?

    #4481
    ELK Tech Support

    No. FA means the M1 will ignore the point (bypass) when it is faulted only and allow the system to arm (force arm). The other industry term would be bypass returnable (system bypasses point if faulted when attempting to arm) and it returns as a protection point once it returns to normal. You are arming the system, creating a fault (system doesn’t know it’s you or a burglar) and then closing the point, while the initial trip is causing the system to believe an intrusion alarm is existing. Proper use of a FA point would be to fault the zone, then arm normally and close/restore the point to normal.

    #4482
    ELK Tech Support

    Gotcha, makes sense. It was just worded incorrectly then in the manual, as I learned quickly I couldn’t arm first then fault the FA point after. I’ve thus changed my behavior, even though it would have been more convenient to arm, walk out into the garage, then open the garage door. I just made my exit delay longer to accommodate.

    Thanks for the reply.

    #6332
    Ira Broussard

    Sorry to bring up an old post, but during some bench testing of the same scenario as the OP, I came across the same issue. On page 32 of the M1 Installation & Programming Guide, it says…

    CAUTION! Force arm operates in a unique way on entry/exit zones! – Entry/Exit zones that are also force armable can be violated during the exit delay and still become force armed. This allows a user to arm, open a garage door, back out, and then shut the door at their leisure, without creating a false alarm and without a long exit delay time. As soon as the garage door is closed, it will automatically return to service.

    The above was what I hoped would happen if the garage door was opened during the exit delay, i.e., I get distracted after opening the door and don’t back out of the garage and close the door before exit delay ends. Like the OP, my garage door is defined as Entry/Exit 2 and force armable.

    Am I misinterpreting the doc?

    Thanks,

    Ira

    #6333
    Ira Broussard

    To clarify, in my last comment about “getting distracted after opening the door”, I should have stated that the control was armed away before I opened the garage door. So the sequence is…

    1. Arm away the control.
    2. Open garage door during exit delay.
    3. Get distracted.
    4. Exit delay ends.
    5. Back out of garage.
    6. Close garage door.

    My bench testing resulting in a burglar alarm condition when step 4 (exit ends) happens.

    Thanks,

    Ira

    #6336
    Brad Weeks

    If the Garage Door is Secure when the M1 System Arms but then becomes not secure or remains not secure after the Exit Delay expires the M1 will go into alarm. Please try the following:

    • Open the Garage Door first
    • Keypad should indicate “Ready Force”
    • Enter your 4 digit code to acknowledge you are arming the system with a zone open and the Exit Delay should start counting down
    • After the Exit Delay has expired the system is Armed with the Garage Door Open
    • Close the Garage Door and it will be live and monitored
    • Open the Garage Door and the Entry Delay will start
    #6337
    Ira Broussard

    I understand what you are saying, and it does work that way if the garage door is open before the control is force armed. I’m asking about the info I copied from the M1 manual into my earlier post about what it says should happen if the door is open after the the control is armed (during the exit delay timer period)…

    CAUTION! Force arm operates in a unique way on entry/exit zones! – Entry/Exit zones that are also force armable can be violated during the exit delay and still become force armed. This allows a user to arm, open a garage door, back out, and then shut the door at their leisure, without creating a false alarm and without a long exit delay time. As soon as the garage door is closed, it will automatically return to service.

    Is the above statement from the M1 manual incorrect?

    #6339
    Brad Weeks

    I believe the thought process of our Product Manager at the time (now retired) the M1 Installation and Programming Manual  was created was trying to convey “Entry/Exit zones that are also force armable can be violated (meaning violated before the exit delay starts) during the exit delay  (not violated during the Exit Delay) and still become force armed. After the Exit Delay Expires if the Zone remains violated it is ignored by the M1 but once it becomes secure it is returned to service”   I can understand the confusion and will see if perhaps the “Caution:” statement can be worded differently.

    #6340
    Ira Broussard

    Too bad it’s a doc confusion/error. I think most people would like it to work the way I and the OP read it.

    I think I found a way to do what I want with the following rules…

    WHENEVER Area 1 IS ARMED AWAY
    THEN BYPASS Zn 3

    WHENEVER Area 1 EXIT DELAY ENDS
    THEN UNBYPASS Zn 3

    This works in the several scenarios I tested… garage door never opened, garage door opened and closed during exit delay, and garage door opened during exit delay but not closed until after exit delay ends. I may add a rule to do something if the door is never closed, but I would also have had to do that if force arm had worked the way I read it. Do you see any issues/problems with these rules? There are probably some edge cases I’m missing.

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